John,
Thanks for your comments, by the way, I use the OCBA name for a particular purpose because I have had many credible threats directed toward me, and my family just like your Dad. To make sure that my family is safe, and I am not forced to hurt those clueless folks who have made the threats, I use this e-mail. Those who know me and my work know me. I work all over the state of Oregon not just Portland.
To respond to some of your statements that are just not accurate or factual. I didn’t say you or anyone else (Some have called him worse) a slouch, that is a southern phrase. By atrocious I am talking about the conduct of Bill and Hillary using what many in this nation with dark skin consider semi-racist things and statements that will be used creatively by the GOP. I expect that of the GOP and small minded people. I know the Clinton's are better than that and I hold them to a higher account.
Bill could have gone down as one of this nations greatest Presidents if he just controlled his fly. His legacy has been eternally tarnished because of his actions with Lewinsky. He hurt all of us with his personal actions. Hillary was atrocious when she said that she and McCain have the experience to be President and Obama only has a speech. Why not just come out and openly endorse McCain. I hold Obama to higher account also and it is why I was very disappointed and complained to both campaigns when they resorted to tit for tat drivel instead of dealing with the real issues. As a nation, Democrats, and people who desire real change, both candidates need to talk about real life issues, what affects real people, and real peoples lives.
At the end of this e-mail I have some of the things that Obama has done and it totally refutes the made up, imagined, and so called lack of experience many cite who most likely wouldn’t vote for him no matter how qualified he is. Besides being a woman, first lady, he matches with Hillary in almost every step, and he matches well. The so called experience of Hillary Clinton is a stretch no matter , objective minds know better. This is not the way I or some people want it this is fact. Just because Clinton represents what many want, desire, and have worked to secure, the first woman to become President, and people adore her, that doesn’t make her the best candidate. I and most Obama supporters don’t adore him we just see the potential. We aren't making up what we want to see in him, maybe those who don’t like him are making up excuses not to support, back, or vote for him for obvious and less obvious reason and creating reasons not to support him.
There is lots of rancor, meanness, and downright subtle racism, bigotry out there against this man and many of those who support him. You and others who support Clinton may not be aware of this but it is real, and it does exist even if some don’t see it. just because Clinton has some big name Blacks speaking for them that doesn’t mean that many in the campaign are using under handed racist tactics. This is not using a made up racial card, it is real. Some people can always be bought off.
I cant see how anyone could ever put Obama in the same sentence with Bush or compare the two. Obama is a world traveler who knows what multi racial, multi-cultural, diverse living , communities and people are, . He is familiar with the issues, he knows what racism is, on both sides of it, from White society, from Black society (Yes there are many Black bigots), and from hate filled society. He worked his way through two very difficult schools and is a constitutional lawyer and worked where the real action is in real life communities on community issues. He knows what affects everyday people and their circumstances.
And did you use the words honest and open with Obama, this from the Clinton campaign? I wont even comment on that while I dodge sniper fire.
Also on Pennsylvania, let’s consider this as you say. Clinton at one time held a league of twenty points, even high in some areas, and he closed that to under 10 percent, quite an accomplishment for a state that has been described as ALABAMA between two large cities. His campaign expected to lose they just wanted to make a good showing and he did and without the GOP vote switching encouraged by Rush Limbaugh and the right wing smear machine in the state, and not by Hillary reaching out across the isle, it would would have been more like four or five percent. It is the reason why Rush was applauding Penn. republicans for encouraging chaos in the Democratic party and help the party tear itself apart. That is the help Hillary received in Pennsylvania along with the 22 percent in the state who openly admitted that they would never vote for a Black man no matter how qualified or experienced.
Obama doesn’t have to wait a few years to be a good candidate, he is a great candidate right now!!!, regardless of what you and I think. You & others may not approve of him and that is great, it what makes this nation great. Many have said that if Hillary could be more honest, open and remember correctly whether she was being shot at or not, she might make a good candidate. Many may think that way about Hillary, the same way you feel about Obama. We agree to disagree. Apparently without the benefit of magic numbers and creative addition, Obama is a outstanding enough Presidential candidate and person that he has won more states where people have open minds, and a tradition of being open and non racial, and has lost other states by close margins when he was once counted way out. Sounds like a good candidate to many.
As regards the Canadian issue and NAFT, CAFTA, research and investigative reporting has shown that this was an attempt by Canadian conservatives trying to help US conservatives by faking a leak while they initiated the contact while the Obama campaign, the Clinton campaign did the exact same thing. There are many investigative reports on PBS and online that investigated this deeply. It amazing how effective lies are when they are mixed with just a little of the truth.
Just so you know I have voted for a Republican in Arkansas. You have to understand most of the racists in the republican party were former southern Democrats who wanted people like Obama and those of us who look like him, multi-racial or not to sit down, shut up, and be quiet. My grand father and grand mothers were life long republicans back when the GOP was a progressive party that reached out to Blacks and gave Blacks opportunities and the vote when Southern Democrats were lynching, raping, and denying voting to people who look like me and those who look like Obama. A fact that many don’t want to admit that while Obama and I and many others are proud of his mult-racial and diverse racial heritage, to the vast majority of people in this nation, especially to those in the south and in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Texas, he is a Black pure and simple, and that is still problematic in this nation. It may not be as big a problem in Oregon (It still is whether the larger community knows it or not) but it is a problem and trying to ignore it is "political posturing", and denial of truth and facts.
You are very right on many veins my friend , this nation cant afford four or eight more years of leadership like what we currently have, and I submit that Obama or Clinton will be much better than McCain. From my deep research, reading of records, and my knowledge of both candidates, I know in my heart Obama is the better choice. I like both, but that is where my heart is and money is. Do I want everyone to agree with me, no, but let's not use half truths and mis information from republicans and from devious campaigners to manipulate how people view him using his pastor and many other things that have little bearing on what is really needed for this nation.
John, I also encourage you to also hear several of Rev. Wright's complete and non manipulated , non U Tube, non taken out of context speeches . I have found that much of the criticism of him on this issues is creative dislike of people who have faith and aren't afraid to discuss it openly. It's amazing how many people dislike people who believe, mixing those people up with right wing religious lunatics who have tainted people of faith everywhere.
You and others with open minds might find out that you have been mislead, mis informed, and manipulated in ways you may not even be aware of. If you want to, if you selectively edit, and take things out of context, you can take the speeches of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi and turn them into hate filled, venom spewing racist appearing people. Southerners and bigots in the north were very good at this, and those skills still exist today. It is one of the many reasons why many old southerners even today think MLK was a communist who wanted to destroy the white race, even though the facts and truth, verbal and written of the matter was very different.
Thanks for the conversation.
EL
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:32 PM
Subject: RE: [ykboo] Turning the tide
OCBA-
Unfortunately, I don't know who you are because you chose to post your messages thru an assumed ID rather than
your name as most people on this list do.
I am glad to hear that you have been a democrat since 18. I was a democrat as far back as I can remember and also
registered as a democrat when I was 18.
I also understand your idea about fighting for your rights and survival. I remember when I was about 8 years old
AIM (American Indian Movement) from South Dakota put a contract out on my father's life because they felt he did
something incorrect (while serving as a Governor's aid ) and he fought back by getting his tribe and other tribes
to raise hell with AIM.
Regarding Hillary vs. Obama; I never called Obama a "slouch" and I don't think I have ever heard anyone else
beside you use the term "slouch" in connection with him.
I do find it surprising and discouraging that you use the term "atrocious" describing either of the Clintons. That and
your other issues you have presented regarding Clinton, fairly well exhibit the problem many democrats are having at
this time; being able to separate reality and what they WANT to see!
Obama is a nice guy with an appealing personality (a quality the current Pres can display when he wants to). But once
you dig deeper past his nice exterior, there are many troubling issues regarding Obama. His assessment of people clinging
to religion and guns and his "political posturing" (IE: lying) regarding how he would handle Canadian issues are just two
simple examples without even going into the other big negatives and we don't even need to again raise the issue with his minister.
Let's look at Pennsylvania for a moment. Obama spent twice as much as Hillary and he still LOST!! People
are starting to see thru!!
Obama might be a really good candidate in a few years. His inexperience right now is his stumbling block. That is why
he does not want to talk about any specifics, because his inexperience will only become more obvious. Current President
Bush showed how badly things can go when we elect an inexperienced liar who is a nice guy to be President. I don't
think this country can afford to elect a democratic version of Bush to be pres, such as Obama. If Obama could become
honest and forthcoming AND show a track record of that, I think he could be a POWERFUL candidate and president.
I am glad you are a loyal democrat, as I am also. I have never voted for a republican for any elected office. But I also
am NOT going to blindly vote for a person only because they are a democrat.
My brother John:
I am proudly a Democrat who has been that since he was eighteen. I too come from a racially and ethnically mixed family so you are not alone in that. My family fought and survived the civil rights movement in Arkansas and Mississippi, a movement that was very different than and more violent than events here in Oregon. I was there when Central High was integrated, I was young but was there, growing up a few blocks from Central High, close enough to have angry majority populations mobs vandalize our home and cars, I and my family knows what it means to be firebombed, shot at, called the N word, yet I was taught by brave and loving parents and grand parents to love and appreciate everyone because our family is everyone.
They also taught me to have vision and look beyond the surface in leadership and that inspiration is just as important most times as having things written down. I will vote for Hillary or Obama in the General election, whoever is nominated. But if it appears that the nomination is stolen from Obama, using trickery, the Democratic party will lose lots of support from its most loyal supporters. During Clinton's worst, even after NAFTA, CAFTA, Monica Lewinski, African Americans and Blacks stuck by this man and his wife and their conduct has been atrocious. Many feel that Hillary is trying to damage Obama so much that he loses the general election so she will have a shot at at the 2012 election, thinking that McCain (McBush) will be to old to run for re-election. I hope that is not the case, because it will leave a very bitter taste in the mouths of many people.
Hillary Clinton is acting like she is entitled to the nomination and she is furious at this so called upstart Obama. As regards experience, Obama is no slouch, he is a Constitutional Lawyer, who worked tirelessly in communities and has the skills, experience, ability, and mind to do the job. Many of our greatest Presidents didn't have everything they wanted to do written down and in position papers, their greatest attribute was their ability to inspire people to go beyond their small world view and see the bigger picture. I see that in Hillary Clinton, but I see it to a much greater degree in Obama. If Clinton keeps using the elitist, Rev. Wright, and negative slant in her campaign she will doing the Democratic party a deep disservice. I was at a rally today where ninety eight percent of the women at the event were White females, with only a few African American, Black females. They were proud to support Obama as I am. I believe in Clinton and have known them both for many years, but after checking the facts, truth and in my heart I support Obama. If that doesn't make me a Democrat with a capital D I don't know what does. If you have doubts about the loyalty of some who call themselves Democrats, consider the thousands who have changed their designation from Republican to Democrat at the advice of the lunatics on right wing radio KPDQ, KXL,KKPZ, and other hate filled right wing radio masquerading as religious broadcasting.
I hope that answers your question. I can disagree without being disagreeable and attacking someone's Pastor because of media hype and half truths taken out of context in the media and on U Tube, while Rev Hagee and Rod Parsley get a free pass on the detestable things they have said as regards Hurricane Katrina and calling the catholic church the "Great Whore". I think we should spend our time making people aware of the double standards that are being displayed on this issue while McCain gets a free ride in the media.
EL
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:03 PM
Subject: RE: [ykboo] Re: [oaba-b] FW: Turning the tide
Some Republicans used to call Bob Dole a sell out because he also reached across party lines to gain support. That made
him one of the most successful Senate leaders in the history of our county. OCBA, are you a republican??
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: [ykboo] A new landscape & Interesting information.
Unfortunately, you have completely mis-understood!!
Hillary has a way to reach across party lines to gain support in a way that Obama has not been able to demonstrate.
*****
Hillary has and is reaching out to Hannity, Michael Savage, and Rush Limbaugh??????? Give me a break!!!!, more like selling out.
It's more truthfully like what the GOP has always done successfully in funneling money, support, and votes to the weakest candidate so they can run successfully against that candidate. They did this in 2004, and with great success in the 1970's, 1980's, Bill Clinton was the exception and they tried very hard with him. Remember,, this is one of the major things Nixon was doing with his dirty tricks gang.
Either candidate is fine with me, just face the truth. The political scene is much different in the northeast where racism, bigotry are rampant, and are still accepted and respected. They don't even make illusions of being fair and balanced, and those same things exist here but are quieter, subtle, with a much better view.
I just hope that on November 5, 2008 that most on the people on these list serves are happy and not crying their eyeballs out because we squandered an excellent opportunity to change this nation for the better because of stupidity.
One thing I am very happy about is that this election year has shown millions of clueless people that the problems of race, bigotry, segregation, elitism, double standards, classism, under the carefully manufactured guise of other things are just as rampant today in cleverly disguised ways as it was in the 1940's. The more things change, the more they stay the same!
EL
"The problem of the twentieth century is the problem of the color-line -- the relation of the darker to the lighter races of men in Asia and Africa, in America and the islands of the sea. It was a phase of this problem that caused the Civil War." W.E.B. Dubois
"I offer you peace. I offer you love. I offer you friendship. I see your beauty. I hear your need. I feel your feelings. My wisdom flows from the Highest Source. I salute that Source in you. Let us work together for unity and love." Mahatma Ghandi
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 5:18 PM
Subject: [oaba-b] FW: Turning the tide
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:46:48 -0400
From: info@hillaryclinton.com
T o: rwilli2546@msn.com
Subject: FW: Turning the tide
Folks, I've never seen anything like it -- thanks to you we are breaking every record we've ever had. The number of people coming on our website and supporting Hillary is nothing short of incredible. More than 50,000 people have contributed to the campaign for the very first time in the last 24 hours alone.
If you haven't gone to the website today and made a contribution, now's the time to join the wave of grassroots support. And if you have contributed, send this message to your friends and tell them to join you.
Click here to contribute and help Hillary win.
Thank you for making this an incredible day,
Terry McAuliffe
Chairman
Hillary Clinton for President
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Hillary Clinton
Date: Wed 4/23/2008
Subject: Turning the tide
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Dear Robert,
This campaign is your campaign, and the victory we celebrated last night is your victory.
Now, thanks to you, the tide is turning in this race. We never stopped believing in one another, never doubted that we could count on each other. You didn't quit, and when I'm president, I promise I won't quit on you.
Now with the next critical contests right around the corner, we need your immediate help to build on the hard-earned momentum of our Pennsylvania victory and continue our success all the way to the nomination.
Contribute today to help carry our momentum to Indiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, and beyond.
Even though the Obama campaign went for broke trying to knock us out of the race, the people of Pennsylvania had other ideas.
We connected with Pennsylvania families who know they need a strong leader who's on their side to turn around the battered Bush economy and end President Bush's disastrous war in Iraq. And as this redefined contest moves across the country, we'll keep connecting.
I'm in this race to fight for you. And you know you can count on me to keep fighting for you every day. And as long as we keep working together, we'll wrest control of the White House from the Republicans and defeat John McCain. I'm going to continue to rely on your heart and your spirit every step of the way.
Contribute now, and together, we can carry our winning message to victory.
Thanks to you, we're on a roll. And with your immediate help, we'll keep moving forward until we've won the Democratic nomination, won the November election, and earned the opportunity to lead America in a new, more promising direction.
Thanks so much for believing in me and believing in how much we can accomplish if we keep pulling together.
Sincerely,
Hillary Rodham Clinton
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